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	<title>Comments on: Dock on the Bay</title>
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		<title>By: Jim Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://www.southoldvoice.com/2008/03/docks-on-the-bay/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.southoldvoice.com/2008/03/31/docks-on-the-bay/#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Somebody better start checking out the legal aspects of forcing a referendum on a proposed public law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody better start checking out the legal aspects of forcing a referendum on a proposed public law.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.southoldvoice.com/2008/03/docks-on-the-bay/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 05:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.southoldvoice.com/2008/03/31/docks-on-the-bay/#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Hi. There are some issues you raised that need clarification. First, where and when did I ever support legislation in the past that put further restriction on water-front owners? I opposed several proposals by the previous board that were detrimental to water-front owners. Code changes to definitions of &#039;buildable&quot; area and accessory buildings, I voted against because they hurt the owners right to invest in their very property by increasing &quot;nonconforming&#039; status even more. The proposed changes to chapter 275 were actually forwarded to the Town board by the TRUSTEES and, although ultimately innocuous, I refused to support them until they were completely clarified for everyones benefit. When the rebuilding of the Case groin was turned down by the state, I interceded and the permit was issued.

I have been working with Trustee Bob Ghosio to develop a financial plan for us to buy our own dredge so we can not only ensure the regular dredging of our creeks BUT to also develop an in house ability to dredge sand back up onto the beaches to replace the fast eroding beach losses suffered by waterfront owners. this would also have the added environmental benefit of getting the sand off the bay bottom and interfering with the regrowth of eel grass. In short, if the state and others do not support shore-hardening structures, then we should be willing to get the sand back where it belongs, on your beaches.

You should not be confused by my effort to enlist your help in participating in making the process better. I am committed to creating a process that reduces your costs and time for permits and support the creation of an &#039;administrative permit&quot; process so that if you follow the design and materials outlined, you could merely get your permit without the lengthy and expensive review. You are entitled to be able to invest in your property and understand what the rules are in clear and predictable terms. That being said, you should not confuse docks in the bay as some sort of new restriction. The fact is that the Trustees have not allowed docks to be built in the bay now for 30 years. The town has spent a considerable amount of legal dollars over these years defending the Trustees right to say &quot;no&quot; and the concern at the Town board level is that there are some Trustees who seem less committed to this past policy.  Yes only 2 docks have been approved in the past 2 years however, only 6 were applied for. 2 were approved, 2 were denied and 2 were tabled. My use of the word &#039;clutter&#039; is perfectly appropriate if many more of these are approved in an area where there were none.  This issue is not new and, in fact, was discussed by the board and the Trustees almost 2 years ago.

The Trustees asked us for time to develop policy and, to date, we have gotten none. I would support a reasonable policy that outlined where they would be appropriate  and limited how long they could be but I have been presented with no such policy. The dock that was the subject of last weeks article extended 104 feet into a harbor where there were virtually none approved in years. I gladly support yours or any homeowners property rights but please understand what that means. The Bay is a public land owned by everybody, not by waterfront owners, and a fixed structure 104 feet out into that public land is a serious incursion into public property. I will champion your property rights but those rights extend typically to the high water mark. By the way, you should try to develop consensus on this issue with other bayfront owners because it was bayfront property owners who first brought this one to my attention and urged the board to take action. It seems that it is, in fact,  true that some waterfront owners do have certain expectations when they invest so substantially into the property and pay so much each year in taxes. Unfortunately, their expectations do not include looking out into the horizon and seeing their neighbors 104 foot dock. On the issue of the dock Test which you outline above, you should understand that that test was adopted by the Trustees to evaluate docks in the CREEKS and other waterways primarily ( not the bay) and was, in fact, adopted when docks in the bay were generally not allowed.

Regards, Scott Russell

&lt;em&gt;Supervisor, Town of Southold</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. There are some issues you raised that need clarification. First, where and when did I ever support legislation in the past that put further restriction on water-front owners? I opposed several proposals by the previous board that were detrimental to water-front owners. Code changes to definitions of &#8216;buildable&#8221; area and accessory buildings, I voted against because they hurt the owners right to invest in their very property by increasing &#8220;nonconforming&#8217; status even more. The proposed changes to chapter 275 were actually forwarded to the Town board by the TRUSTEES and, although ultimately innocuous, I refused to support them until they were completely clarified for everyones benefit. When the rebuilding of the Case groin was turned down by the state, I interceded and the permit was issued.</p>
<p>I have been working with Trustee Bob Ghosio to develop a financial plan for us to buy our own dredge so we can not only ensure the regular dredging of our creeks BUT to also develop an in house ability to dredge sand back up onto the beaches to replace the fast eroding beach losses suffered by waterfront owners. this would also have the added environmental benefit of getting the sand off the bay bottom and interfering with the regrowth of eel grass. In short, if the state and others do not support shore-hardening structures, then we should be willing to get the sand back where it belongs, on your beaches.</p>
<p>You should not be confused by my effort to enlist your help in participating in making the process better. I am committed to creating a process that reduces your costs and time for permits and support the creation of an &#8216;administrative permit&#8221; process so that if you follow the design and materials outlined, you could merely get your permit without the lengthy and expensive review. You are entitled to be able to invest in your property and understand what the rules are in clear and predictable terms. That being said, you should not confuse docks in the bay as some sort of new restriction. The fact is that the Trustees have not allowed docks to be built in the bay now for 30 years. The town has spent a considerable amount of legal dollars over these years defending the Trustees right to say &#8220;no&#8221; and the concern at the Town board level is that there are some Trustees who seem less committed to this past policy.  Yes only 2 docks have been approved in the past 2 years however, only 6 were applied for. 2 were approved, 2 were denied and 2 were tabled. My use of the word &#8216;clutter&#8217; is perfectly appropriate if many more of these are approved in an area where there were none.  This issue is not new and, in fact, was discussed by the board and the Trustees almost 2 years ago.</p>
<p>The Trustees asked us for time to develop policy and, to date, we have gotten none. I would support a reasonable policy that outlined where they would be appropriate  and limited how long they could be but I have been presented with no such policy. The dock that was the subject of last weeks article extended 104 feet into a harbor where there were virtually none approved in years. I gladly support yours or any homeowners property rights but please understand what that means. The Bay is a public land owned by everybody, not by waterfront owners, and a fixed structure 104 feet out into that public land is a serious incursion into public property. I will champion your property rights but those rights extend typically to the high water mark. By the way, you should try to develop consensus on this issue with other bayfront owners because it was bayfront property owners who first brought this one to my attention and urged the board to take action. It seems that it is, in fact,  true that some waterfront owners do have certain expectations when they invest so substantially into the property and pay so much each year in taxes. Unfortunately, their expectations do not include looking out into the horizon and seeing their neighbors 104 foot dock. On the issue of the dock Test which you outline above, you should understand that that test was adopted by the Trustees to evaluate docks in the CREEKS and other waterways primarily ( not the bay) and was, in fact, adopted when docks in the bay were generally not allowed.</p>
<p>Regards, Scott Russell</p>
<p><em>Supervisor, Town of Southold</em></p>
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		<title>By: Doug Rose Sr.</title>
		<link>http://www.southoldvoice.com/2008/03/docks-on-the-bay/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Rose Sr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.southoldvoice.com/2008/03/31/docks-on-the-bay/#comment-108</guid>
		<description>A “Ban on New Docks” in Southold’s bay front communities should concern us all. Is it the intention of the Town of Southold to alleviate another potential town shoreline problem by a broad stroke of legislation rather than by a careful analysis of a property owner’s application?

Waterfront property owners (taxpayers) deserve better consideration and attention from our local government. No property owner should be guaranteed a dock on the bay, but every property owner should be able to submit a well-intended, professional application based on current acceptable building &amp; engineering standards with their application.

This application should be reviewed, evaluated and answered in with an acknowledged estimate of review time via legislated review procedures presently available through our Trustees, Building Department, and the NYS DEC.

The Town of Southold has Twelve (12) specific criteria that an applicant should address. Those twelve criteria items are published above for your review and must be the foundation for determining acceptable applications for “Docks on the bay.”

Southold is being challenged by time consuming projects that require careful consideration, long term planning and stakeholder impute. Many important issues revolve around resources of our shoreline, its owners and stakeholders: SoutholdVOICE Members.

During the past several months Supervisor Russell has issued several requests for volunteers to work on advisory committees. In one moment Southold Officials are challenging SoutholdVoice Members with further waterfront restrictions and possible legislation. In the next moment, we have been invited to “Help, Participate, and offer Advise.” It is confusing.

Old shoreline priorities in the Town of Southold: Road Runoff, Dredging, Water Quality, Erosion, Pollution, Channel Identification, Pump Out Stations, etc. are being mixed together with local government’s new priorities, without solution or substantial improvement to the old priorities. What are the short and long term goals of the present ST Administration and our community: Solution or Confusion? What can we afford?

Southold is a township with the resources of beautiful shoreline, water related activities, open space, farms, vineyards, and waterfront residences and properties. We are a community that can boost many favorable visitor alternatives to distant travel, vacations, and real estate investment. Southold’s best industry isn’t Farming, Vineyards, or Fishing. They definitely enhance our total presentation. The most important “Industry” revolves around our real estate on the North Fork. Valuations rise, commissions are earned, attorneys and consultants are hired, architects and engineers are engaged, contractors and their subs are employed, and supplies and materials are sold. Local merchants, service industries, restaurants and farms sell their products. If this “Destination Theme” market recedes because of questionable publicity, obstacles in legislation or by perceived interference by government, eventually it will affect future interest and the valuations of our real estate on the North Fork. Remember that there were two (2) approved applications for docks on the bay within the past two years. “Clutter” is not a fitting adjective to describe the shoreline of our bays.

I suggest we influence the visitor, real estate investor, and the stakeholder with positive images, articles and introductions of great Southold experiences. A committee of public relations should be formed against the “Nay Sayers.” Please contribute your thoughts and questions to our Website and join SoutholdVoice. Help us make a difference.


Douglas F. Rose, Sr.
Treasurer, Board Member of
SoutholdVOICE Inc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A “Ban on New Docks” in Southold’s bay front communities should concern us all. Is it the intention of the Town of Southold to alleviate another potential town shoreline problem by a broad stroke of legislation rather than by a careful analysis of a property owner’s application?</p>
<p>Waterfront property owners (taxpayers) deserve better consideration and attention from our local government. No property owner should be guaranteed a dock on the bay, but every property owner should be able to submit a well-intended, professional application based on current acceptable building &#038; engineering standards with their application.</p>
<p>This application should be reviewed, evaluated and answered in with an acknowledged estimate of review time via legislated review procedures presently available through our Trustees, Building Department, and the NYS DEC.</p>
<p>The Town of Southold has Twelve (12) specific criteria that an applicant should address. Those twelve criteria items are published above for your review and must be the foundation for determining acceptable applications for “Docks on the bay.”</p>
<p>Southold is being challenged by time consuming projects that require careful consideration, long term planning and stakeholder impute. Many important issues revolve around resources of our shoreline, its owners and stakeholders: SoutholdVOICE Members.</p>
<p>During the past several months Supervisor Russell has issued several requests for volunteers to work on advisory committees. In one moment Southold Officials are challenging SoutholdVoice Members with further waterfront restrictions and possible legislation. In the next moment, we have been invited to “Help, Participate, and offer Advise.” It is confusing.</p>
<p>Old shoreline priorities in the Town of Southold: Road Runoff, Dredging, Water Quality, Erosion, Pollution, Channel Identification, Pump Out Stations, etc. are being mixed together with local government’s new priorities, without solution or substantial improvement to the old priorities. What are the short and long term goals of the present ST Administration and our community: Solution or Confusion? What can we afford?</p>
<p>Southold is a township with the resources of beautiful shoreline, water related activities, open space, farms, vineyards, and waterfront residences and properties. We are a community that can boost many favorable visitor alternatives to distant travel, vacations, and real estate investment. Southold’s best industry isn’t Farming, Vineyards, or Fishing. They definitely enhance our total presentation. The most important “Industry” revolves around our real estate on the North Fork. Valuations rise, commissions are earned, attorneys and consultants are hired, architects and engineers are engaged, contractors and their subs are employed, and supplies and materials are sold. Local merchants, service industries, restaurants and farms sell their products. If this “Destination Theme” market recedes because of questionable publicity, obstacles in legislation or by perceived interference by government, eventually it will affect future interest and the valuations of our real estate on the North Fork. Remember that there were two (2) approved applications for docks on the bay within the past two years. “Clutter” is not a fitting adjective to describe the shoreline of our bays.</p>
<p>I suggest we influence the visitor, real estate investor, and the stakeholder with positive images, articles and introductions of great Southold experiences. A committee of public relations should be formed against the “Nay Sayers.” Please contribute your thoughts and questions to our Website and join SoutholdVoice. Help us make a difference.</p>
<p>Douglas F. Rose, Sr.<br />
Treasurer, Board Member of<br />
SoutholdVOICE Inc.</p>
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